Whole Man

#13: The Missing Link in Healthcare (Ft. David Ambrose)

• Brennan Hilleary • Season 1 • Episode 13

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David Ambrose is the owner of Metafit RX and runs a practical care model that bridges the gap traditional healthcare misses. Most people go to their annual physical, get their blood drawn, turn and cough, and walk out with no real understanding of how their body actually functions.

David helps burned-out high achievers in their 40s and 50s unlock their metabolic formula so they can live longer and better without sacrificing everything to get there.

In this conversation, we talk about:

  • Why visceral fat is the silent killer you can't see in the mirror
  • The real reason high performers burn out (it shows up in your body composition)
  • Why alcohol, stress, and poor sleep create a vicious cycle you can't break without intervention
  • The difference between therapy and coaching (and why most people stay stuck in the self-awareness trap)
  • How diet and exercise outperform antidepressants for depression and anxiety
  • Why integrated care (physicians, coaches, and therapists working together) is the only model that actually works
  • The "volunteers not hostages" philosophy for getting people to change

David's work proves that you can't separate physical health from mental health from financial health. They're all connected. And if you're ignoring one, the others will eventually break down.

If you're in your 30s-50s, still grinding, and wondering why your body doesn't work the same anymore, this episode is for you.

Check Out David Ambrose & Metafit RX ⬇️

 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dambrose77/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/metafitrx/

Website: https://metafitrx.com/

Newsletter: Build With Brennan: Designed to help you build a better life, stop surviving, and thrive personally & professionally.

My YouTube Channel: Video versions of the podcast and more.

Business Website: Helping established businesses develop their people beyond their title through transformative keynote talks, workshops, and group coaching.

Other Social Links: LinkedIn, facebook, instagram.

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to another episode of Whole Man. I have an awesome guest with me today. His name is David Ambrose. He is the owner of Metafit RX. I met David through a mutual connection at a BI group that I was a part of. And I remember the first time we spoke, I believe you were on a walk and I was on a walk, and we spoke for probably an hour and a half or something like that during our first conversation. I just think you're an awesome human being. Your mission's amazing. And I would love for you to just start this thing off with talking about who you are, what you do. And then I want to kind of guide us towards the direction of what made David David, what things happened in your life, why are you so driven and why are you so, I would say, obsessed in a healthy way of helping people with their personal well-being and their physical health. So let's kick it off with whatever you want to speak on with your company and with you.

Metafit RX And Practical Care

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so thanks for having me. And yes, it was when we first talked, I think that was a day I hit nine miles in our parking lot. I had 18,000 steps in our parking lot. I broke 20,000 on a on a workday because I had you, we talked for a while and I had another one or two walking meetings that day and got 20,000 steps in the parking lot. Yeah. Which was amazing. Uh so yeah, David Ambrose, owner of a couple businesses actually, Metafit RX, Metafit MD is the other one, and that's Energy Health Collective. So a lot going on there. Yeah. Uh the main focus we'll talk about today will be the RX component, but there's kind of this um umbrella of what we're doing, as my brain can't focus on one thing at once and wants to always add additional things. So uh but yeah, we my wife actually started our business, Metafit RX. This was her graduate program at James Madison and exercise physiology. My my graduate degree was in health promotion management, which is basically health coaching, and she had the idea of bringing all this testing to everybody and not just elite athletes, which is what all the research is based upon cyclists and runners. Her goal was to bring it to the middle-aged mom and dad that is super busy, they're taking care of kids that are either a little bit older, or maybe now they're in college or out, and then maybe they have a parent that is also they're taking care of. So anybody, and you'll be get there one day. When you get around into your 40s, you have sometimes little people you're taking care of, and sometimes older people you're taking care of. Right. Maybe there's an animal or two also, and maybe there's land, maybe you know, there's a lot of things. But a lot of things happen where you're your busiest time of your career and your the most priority is coming from you from other uh familial sources, and there's just a lot happening. So it becomes a thing where Melissa saw this as an opportunity to help people become healthier, live longer, live better. That's really the goal, is sort of what we call the practical care side of what is known as primary care. You know, primary care, everybody knows what primary care is, but our goal is to have a practical care model where we're now having applicable data other than drawing blood and turning ahead and cough, right? We want to we want to actually have some demonstrable data of how do your heart and lungs function, what is your actual body composition, is your how is your metabolism, how is your metabolism functioning? Is it is it functioning well? Is it the speed we want it to be? So we say unlock your metabolic formula, and with that metabolic formula, we can then give you that dietary script, that cardio script, and also see what's happening as far as internally with the body with visceral fat levels, bone health, total body fat levels, muscle mass. And this is where we just get a really powerful formula to help you have a blueprint for how to improve the the main focus would be that second half of life and the marginal decade. So the second half of life from 40 plus and then those last 10 years.

How David And Melissa Work Together

SPEAKER_04

I'm curious when it comes to your work, yeah. It sounds like that both you and Melissa have a strong background in health and nutrition and fitness. So I'd love to hear about the background in that for you and and also for her, maybe even the story of how you two met. How did how did these how did these two people collide?

SPEAKER_01

Well, so technically, technically, when we met in DC. Okay, and she would have been my uh direct supervisor at Gold's gym at the time. I love it. So HR violations, but no, it it was uh yeah, we just be became friends, and then later on discovered there's a little bit more here. Yeah. You know, um I that's the best way to summarize that. But it yeah, it it so it started, and because we started as friends, it completely had a different dynamic. There was never ever any expectation of anything else, and if so it was this complete honesty.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I love it. And you hear that a lot when it comes to I think when people have a strong foundation in their relationships and and her being a co-business owner with you, you gotta have that foundation. So strong friendship first, and then attraction second, right?

SPEAKER_01

Which is great. So she's always been my boss, is the point. Yeah. And and but she's this is understanding our roles. She's very good in that in that leadership role. I see. I'm so disorganized mentally in my brain that I need someone to keep me on on track. I need someone who can do the X's and O's and dot to I's and cross the T's. Yeah. Whereas I'm like, we could I could talk to you for four hours here. Right. And I would I wouldn't bat an eye at it. Whereas her, she's gonna say, here's the here's the question, here's the answer. I see. And and so you I feel like you need both. And that's what we saw in the business was she found out quickly, I can give people this black and white clinical data about how their body's working, about how their metabolism's working, about everything with their body. But how do I get someone to then take data and apply it in a meaningful way to a busy we all don't have the same 24 hours in a day, right? The fitness influencer on Instagram spends four hours a day exercising and prepares every meal by hand. Sure. I prepare every meal by hand for us, and I'm lucky if I get an hour in a day of of some sort of designated exercise time. So that's why I do walking calls because that gets me a lot of extra activity that sure I'm not really counting.

SPEAKER_04

But so you guys have kind of found that there's there's a difference between awareness, knowing what's wrong, which is the primary care, and then the actual, okay, based off my circumstances, how do I apply what I've found? Right. And it sounds like that's the gap you're bridging. And so she started it first. When did she start the organization? And then when did you come into the picture? I was always there from the beginning.

COVID Pivot And The Wellness Wheel

SPEAKER_01

I named I named the business. And I was always there from the beginning, and I was always a part of it, but I didn't go full-time into it until about a year into it. That's what I say. What were you doing before you went full time into it? Well, I we had moved from DC and and right when we moved here, COVID hit not long after. Oh, I see. Okay. And she'd bought these machines, our original um metabolic machines, uh in January of 2020. If you recall, we had a bit of a problem in 2020.

SPEAKER_05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

And some stuff happened in March, and then the whole country was in disarray for for quite a while. Is we're like, what's happening here? And I've been in in in the healthcare, health, fitness space for 15 years at that point. I was like, you know, I'm not going back to personal training. I'm not it. You know, and I was like, what can I do? So I I actually got into the financial health component. Okay. And got into some of the financial planning components because I thought that was always the missing component of wellness where you have and doing this for a very long time and working with people, particularly high executive function people, sure. You would see, hey, this guy's got money, it's not a problem. He can pay me I could say a million dollars an hour, he's fine, right? Yeah. Well not that. But I mean, whatever the it didn't matter. They money wasn't an issue. So, but what you see was these particularly the men I worked with, a lot of the very successful men had become broken in the process of their careers. So you saw the physical health suffer. Mentally, they were actually doing pretty well. They're pretty happy people, right? But financially they're doing well, physically they weren't doing so well, but mentally, emotionally, they were in a good space. But what you saw now is as you get into your 50s, 40s and 50s, things just start to break down if you don't take care of them. So that's where I got into the financial component. And I still 100% firmly believe in the the whole wellness wheel and financial health, physical, mental emotional, I think are the most impactful. Others are very important also. But I think overall, if you can get those three targeted, and I can tell you, very few people have all three.

SPEAKER_04

And that's physical, mental, and emotional, and then financial health.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I think they're they you can't disentangle them. Then you have social, spiritual, or purpose, uh, environmental, um, occupational. Right. You have all these other the environment is massive, right? If you're in a toxic environment, yeah, how do you succeed?

SPEAKER_04

So essentially, yeah, so you were you started your focus as like the financial health, and then it there was something, it sounds like that happened that that made you want to take the leap into doing the business full-time. What was that transition like? What what was the catalyst for that?

SPEAKER_01

That was her needing someone that can talk to people. And and she and she can talk to people, of course, but the the idea of of being able to talk to you know anybody I'm sitting across from, I will find common ground. I don't know if empathy or sympathy is the right word. Sure. But it's just product, it's just product of listening. That's all it is. I don't have to have been through what you've been through. Actually, I can't. Even if I was your twin brother, I can't I didn't experience the same life as you. Right. Right. So I just need to be able to listen and then apply and figure out what did he or she say that I can now take and help them build a plan and be successful. And that might be 20 minutes a day this person has for activity, four days a week. Right. That's it. They don't have time for more.

SPEAKER_04

They so it sounds like you're like the sales and the marketing person. And then she's like the COO, um, CEO person. 100%. And you guys have a you guys have a team now, correct?

SPEAKER_01

We have three three and a half people. Three and a half people, yeah. Melissa, myself. So Melissa be considered our our clinical exercise physiologist. Okay. Along with Emma and Chris. And I would be our I say health behavior specialist, but it's more like a health coach is really what most people would call it. But sure.

SPEAKER_04

And I know I know the pain of everybody and their mom calling themselves coach.

SPEAKER_01

So I understand the diversification of the right. And with my credentials and my experience, it you know it's it's like when you look at personal training. Personal trainers that get a certification over the weekend, personal trainers that did a four-year degree and a master's and a doctorate in the field, it's a pretty big difference. Yeah. But the caveat with everything is credentials are one thing. Experience And wisdom is another thing. It's yeah, you can't. So there's always a balance of um clinical expertise, but if you can't talk to somebody, it doesn't really matter what you learned. Because if you can't talk, it doesn't matter. You have to be able to apply it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So you so so yeah, she she was like, all right, I need somebody to to drive the sales, the marketing, and and it sounds like your strength, and I I've definitely gotten this from talking to you a lot, is you're really great at connecting with people, uncovering their needs, wants, desires, and then helping them take the information and then bridge the gap between what you help them realize and what they need to do. 100%. And so you started to do that. You did you did that full time. Talk to me about the process of whenever you started full-time with Melissa, talk to me about some of the pain points that you encountered along the way when it comes to maybe working with your spouse, and then also maybe just in the business in general. Like, were there any pretty significant barriers you had to learn how to overcome at first whenever you first started the going into the business full-time?

Finding The Right Clients

SPEAKER_01

Oddly enough, working with her, I'm just trying to get you in trouble. Yeah, no, I'm I it was actually really easy. I'm trying to think of what we've had a problem with, but here's where we've had a problem. I want to give everything away. I see. And she's like, we have to make money, we're a business. Yeah. I I have a background in civil rights, a nonprofit. Ten years I worked in housing discrimination, so we would tackle issues related to housing and and and uh various protected categories to help people who have been um victimized and in discrimination with with um housing transactions. So my bleeding heart was always wanting to just I want I want what we do to just to be I want everyone to do it. Sure. I wish we I wish we could give it away. Yeah. So there's that. So you obviously you can't run a business when you're just giving everything away. Right. Yeah. And then uh barriers would be we didn't really figure out our avatar, our phenotype for the first couple years. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04

Well, what did it start? Because this is probably one of when it comes to and especially in our world, in our space, it is when you have the heart of I could help everybody, one of the hardest things to do is to niche down and get super clear on not only the person that could benefit most from what you do, but the person that you enjoy working with the most as well. Right, right. So yeah, I'd love to hear about like how that's evolved for you. What was your, I guess what were the first few kinds of avatars of people that you served, and then what did you land on as of now?

SPEAKER_01

Because this was founded in and because clinical exercise physiology was founded in in in cali in research facilities on athletes, that's who we thought would first come to us. Even though her whole idea actually says to bring it to everybody, we oddly enough ignored that at first, which made no sense. Because it was it's in our story. Like it says the goal was to bring it to everybody, and then we were thinking, oh, bodybuilders and crossfitters and all these runners, they're all gonna flock to us and be running into us. And we were like, hey, you know, where are all these people? And when you look at the population wide, that's less than 10% of the population anyway. So we uh we went through a lot, made a lot of mistakes, moved several times within within Richmond. We've settled now, and we're in an amazing space. And we we partner with partner MD at uh concierge medical practice here, and they brought us in to work with their patients. Okay. We're open to the public, of course. We're we're we're our own business, but we had already started to see, hey, the the person that does that goes to partner MD is the person that typically comes to see us. The person who is more proactive about their health, the person who is preventive, preventative minded, and the person who wants to live longer and better. It it wasn't the 25-year-old with abs. Right.

SPEAKER_04

It was the right there, they're still in superhero mode, thinking that they're invincible. So they're not gonna be worried about the potential of injury.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah. So now it's the 45-year-old dad bod, right? Right. And and the mom that had three kids. Right. And things just don't work the same anymore. So that's who came in. And it makes sense when when I say this out loud, I'm like, God, why didn't we just make that the focus? But we found out that that but that physicians are far and away our best partners. So we work with numerous practices throughout the area from Williamsboro to Charlottesville, Virginia Beach here, that send us their patients because we help improve their outcomes. And that's you had asked me at the beginning about, you know, sort of the why. And we're very, very people-driven and wanting to help people. And we firmly believe what we do is a vital part of an annual physical to help improve those long-term outcomes.

SPEAKER_04

Cool. So you've partnered with because healthcare is it's it's an interesting nut to crack, I've found. Yeah. And um, because I I've been a lot of the work that I do has been with behavioral health centers, right? Business owners who own clinical practices. And I know it's not an easy world to get into, but what what you just said is so smart, where it's making it a part of a step of what people already know they need to do. So it sounds like when when I guess walk me through this process, because this is really interesting, because this is something I've thought about doing in my business because I've been partnering with more medium-sized organizations. It's kind of gotten a little bit bigger for me. So the process is they go to a primary care physician, and then what are the things that they uncover that prompt them to refer to you?

SPEAKER_01

It'd be two types of people, generally. That person goes in and they find out they're pre-diabetic or diabetic, they're pre-hypertensive or hypertensive, they're already on several medications and they're they're in a disease state. Gotcha. Or they're about to become into a disease state. Got it. Or they're very close. Or the other person, it's it's you in 20 years, you've stayed active. Hey, I just want to make sure my next 40 years are great. Right. Right. Sorry. Is that you're the person, you've you've done it. Like in 20 years, you're still gonna be I already know you fitness is a super important part of your life. Right. And in 20 years, you'll it'll still be there. I see. You won't be who you are today because you'll be so busy, but you're still gonna make it a part of your life. But maybe now at 45, things just aren't quite the same and recovery takes longer. So, but now you want to maximize your time because it is it is even more limited than it was. So those are the two people and really kind of falls under two categories that we would call longevity and obesity. Gotcha. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So there's and it's interesting because I've seen this across even the coaching space as well. It sounds like for you, the general population person is being 20 years. Yes. Right. And then and then the people that you get referred are the people who are in a d disease state or about to be in a disease state.

SPEAKER_01

They got a bad diagnose, their their mom, their sister, their wife, their brother got a bad diagnosis. Right.

SPEAKER_04

So, like, hey, this is your wake-up call. Right, right. And that's interesting because a lot of a lot of the things that I've do. So obviously helping people, helping high performers uh take back control of their well-being, people who feel like work is consuming their life. You know, my it took me a really long time to figure out my what my avatar was too because it's like, well, yeah, everybody's experiencing burnout, everybody's experiencing a lack of fulfillment. There's so many people who struggle with this, so who do I really connect with? And what I realized was it has to be a very specific kind of person experiencing lack of fulfillment. It wasn't just the general, hey, I'm working three jobs and I don't like my life, and so I want to change. It has to be the person who has taken the trauma and the pain they've experienced in their past and they've used it as fuel to create external success. And so they've already achieved the stuff that they thought was going to make them happy. And then what happens is the fuel that they originally used to create that success has now become corrosive. So it's become self-destructive in a way, and they got away with it for a while when they were younger, right? So they were able, they were able to take Adderall all the time or work 80 hours a week. For a long time, that fuel was really potent and and all they had to do was just hustle and grind, and that worked for them. And and I've noticed the people that I really resonate with are the people who it's no longer working, but they feel trapped in the same cycles and patterns of behavior. So, and it's people a lot of times I've realized who have a lot of self-awareness too. So it can't be people who aren't in tune with personal development. They have to be almost, in a way, personal development veterans. So people who they've already gone to therapy, they've already tried the productivity hacks and tactics, they've already read the books, they listened to the podcast, but they still feel stuck in patterns of behavior that aren't serving them. Right. And it and it's so interesting because when it's but if you don't get to the point where you've already done the thing that you thought was gonna be your solution, it's really hard for you to invest in something that is not surface level. So it sounds like with you, it's similar in the sense of the people that are coming to you have gotten to a certain level of awareness of if I don't fix this thing, I'm gonna have real consequences within the next one year, five years, or 10 years. Right, right, right. And unfortunately, as much as we like to think that people will just want to be proactive in general and take care of their health, investing in really effective solutions that go deeper than just the surface level requires people to have a certain level of pain in order to do so, just from my experience.

Burnout Signals In The Body

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, and a lot of what you're talking about leads to the burnout part, right? Yeah. And where do you see burnout manifest physically? Where we see it is one area is in visceral fat readings. So you may have a person who's actually you in 20 years who have stayed active, they do really well, but alcohol is a big part of their social life, part of their personal life. And I've seen people had someone recently and their visceral fat had remained it might have even increased or remained. So they had body composition improvement as far as fat loss muscle gain got better there. But if I recall their visceral fat, I don't think it moved.

SPEAKER_04

Sometimes we've seen it So what's the difference between visceral fat and then just regular body fat?

SPEAKER_01

So subcutaneous fat is fat I can pinch, see, and feel. It's it's it's right here, right? This is we all we have a layer of subcutaneous fat on our whole body.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Visceral fat's under the abdominal wall, and that's the fat that's going to surround the organs, and that's where you look at high risk because you could have a healthy amount of subcutaneous you could have an unhealthy amount of subcutaneous fat and have almost no visceral fat. So you can't see someone's visceral fat when they walk by you. Now, when you typically see it is in a male who may look pregnant.

SPEAKER_04

I see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it's like the they call the beer gut. Right. And you may even feel the stomach and be like, wow, that's your your stomach's rock hard. Well, that's really bad because there's so much fat internally, it's pushing the muscle out. So you're feeling the muscle. And there may not have be, there may not be a ton of subcutaneous fat that that's cushy, that's on the outside of you can, that's squishy. So that really hard stomach is the worst outcomes because now we're looking at alcohol directly impacting that. Alcohol is going to be a direct contributor, right? Stress, you're which is what you're what you're all which is what I'm hearing a lot. And then what you see with stress and alcohol is typically the lack of sleep or poor quality sleep.

SPEAKER_04

So with the kind of people that you help, do you see a lot of because it sounds like you work with higher performers, high net people? Sounds like our avatar is pretty similar in that way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're describing who we work with. Yeah, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So do you see that a lot of people use substances as a way to cope? Do you have a lot of people?

SPEAKER_01

It's just a part of life. Okay. It's just a part of I went to an event, I was at work, I went to a dinner, I took a client out, I had to fly to Texas, I had to fly to Florida, I had to fly to New York. It's just a part of everything.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh talking about wellness in general, that's where the environment we live in an environment now that is a not necessarily a fan of the word, but toxic. We we are in an environment that does not support health. The environment overall is largely negative, whether it's the food or the behavior or substances that come. Alcohol is just accepted to be a part of a normal meal. Sure. It just shouldn't be. It should be used rarely, if ever. Yeah. You know, our recommendation for alcohol is zero. And we've seen people again that are doing really well across the board, but because of their high alcohol intake, and us because we can we do work with physicians, you see those impacts are very real on other metrics we're getting from the docs and talking about like, hey, you're actually really good across the board, your visceral fat is a little bit higher. And then you get in the conversation, how how many drinks do you have? Three a day, two a day, yeah, one a day. You know, it's like uh uh someone had told me recently they they have 15. I said a year, and he said a week. And I was like, that's gonna we we're gonna need to tackle this, right? Because that's where you sit down.

Alcohol Stress Sleep And Visceral Fat

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, what do you do? I'm so curious about this because I'm so you people come in because they have real consequences that they're facing. And you know, my stepmom passed away from alcoholism, and I've been through addiction as well. So I I know how hard it is to really break and cope with. So I'm just curious about your success rate when it comes to people come to you. For the most part, their overall health is is fine besides the substance use issues. How do you attack that? Do you help them yourself and then you refer them to another specialist? I'm just curious about your process when you when you uncover that the big thing that's holding people back is this addiction and reliance on substance abuse.

SPEAKER_01

It depends on where they came from, but I stay within my scope, is the first part.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But that's where we've built a really big network of mental health providers, of people that can handle substance abuse, eating disorders, disordered eating. Sure. We stay in our lane. And depending where they came from, if it came from their physician or we're working with our doc, it's much easier.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Because the doc can hand can step in a lot with that. But even then, you may need another professional to come in to handle. I I'm not a substance abuse, I'm sure that's not my field.

SPEAKER_04

So time I don't even pretend to be like Do you have like a specific example of the last time? Because I'm just curious about your process. I've never really asked you about this. The last time where you you had somebody referred to you and they're willing to work with you, they're willing to change. I think a huge part of this process is it has to be self-selective. Right, right, right. You can't just like rehab, you can't go kicking and screaming. You have to opt yourself in. So if somebody opts themselves in to work with you, yeah. You talk me through. So what's the what's the process of when you get somebody in? Yeah. And then would love to hear an example of somebody that you've uncovered through your process that the big thing holding them back is is alcoholism or a substance abuse problem, and then just how you dealt with that.

SPEAKER_01

So the it hasn't come out and and you know, I I can't begin to classify whether it was alcoholism or not. Sure. I'll leave that to the professionals. Yeah, leave that to determine that. But you definitely see I'm just looking at usage rates. Sure. And is it is it impeding their life? Can they not function without you know, that's where you see the signs, right? Right. But again, I can't diagnose that.

SPEAKER_04

Right. So Yeah, let's this is strictly opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But you obviously see it's a problem. Right. And it's it's affecting their sleep, it's affecting their health, it's affecting uh the the again by being able to work with docs on this and seeing some of the deeper analytics that we would never uncover because we're only we the visceral fat gives us an indicator of hey, you're doing everything right, but you have a higher level of visceral fat than I expect for someone with your build, with your activity level, with everything you're telling me, something's not adding up. And it's gonna be sleep diet, it's gonna be sleep and alcohol and stress all combined. They typically go hand in hand because as you get more stressed, you drink more, as you drink more, you sleep worse, as you sleep worse, you're more stressed. And as you it's that cycle. Yeah. Right. So whether so that's where you see that occur. So in that process, if it is uncovered, and I will probably tell you every, not not probably, I will tell you every single person that I do any sort of health behavior coaching with, I ask all of them if they're seeing a therapist. It's it's just a standard question I ask. Most of the time, they're pretty self-aware and they already have. Well, I will give I will say the women give them credit. Probably more so than that. I will say, yeah, I think 100% of women, almost 100% of women I've ever asked that question that are coming to us for help with the the fitness programming, the dietary programming, the stress management, and the sleep, they've all been or are in therapy. A lot of the men are like, eh, you know. Yeah. But they would benefit some of them have been, some of them haven't, but you can uncover, and that's when I say, hey, that's you shouldn't, you know. I I don't just say, hey, Brennan, you need therapy. I I it comes up naturally, organically, right, uh, but honestly, right? And and you'll see if I so I need to see when if I identify things, if there's things happening to where everything is there, and this is where you do see it with women, more so than men, everything's set up for her to succeed. She came to us for our testing, which is how it all starts. She asked about the process. They signed up, they did maybe we had a consultation. She signed up for all three tests. We got the baseline data. We see where she needs to improve, we see where what she can do. And in the process, we now begin working with her. We're we're coaching with her. But for some reason, every time I talk to her, oh well, I'm not really doing this, not really doing that. And then you find out, well, is is your husband supportive? Oh yeah, he's great. He he he's he's always telling me, let's go take a walk. Gotcha. Uh, you have two kids that are in high school, how are they? They're like, Oh, mom, let's, you know, we'll take care of our little brother who's eight, and you go work out, and um say mom is the one who cooks, like, no, let's dad is gonna cook this week, or I'm we're gonna you like you have a really good support system. Right. And she still won't do it. Right. So that's a different conversation also. Sure.

SPEAKER_04

Because now if I if you're in now she's purely getting in her own way, right, right.

SPEAKER_01

And and it's it's a much deeper conversation than that. And that's where I I really encourage them that we need to get you connected to somebody that is gonna be able to unpack that in a deeper level again that I'm that's not my expertise.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's no, that's great, that's great to know. What is what is in your perspective, because I get asked this question a lot, and I can give my perspective on this too. What would you say is the difference between a therapist and a coach?

Staying In Scope With Substance Use

SPEAKER_01

I think there is a fine line there that that doing what we do, what you do, like we we you you really have to know that line, yeah, and not get into diagnosing depression, anxieties, you know, doing clinical diagnoses. Sure. And the biggest difference too is I tell people, I will tell you what to do. A therapist will say, Well, Brendan, how's that make you feel? Right. What do you think we should do? Right. I'm going to say, Brendan, this is what you're going to do. Right. Here's what you're going to eat. Yeah. Here's how you're going. So that's the difference, is we sure, but that's also why we're we're not clinically diagnosing depression, anxiety, bipolar, you know, whatever the mental health disorder may be. We're we're doing things to help that we know will help improve um without doing that clinical diagnosis that we leave. That's the difference, I think.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. I agree with you in that.

SPEAKER_01

But you do, but the conversations are going to be similar. I think the biggest difference is we give direction. We tell them what to do.

Therapist Versus Coach In Practice

SPEAKER_04

Here's how you move. This is this is the steps to get you from the version of you who you are now, and then the version of you you want to be. And I, yeah, what I always tell people with that is therapy. One, therapy, they're able to diagnose people. Two, therapy, in my perspective, is all based around unpacking. Right, right, right, right. Right. So it's all about, you know, why are you the way you are? It's helping expand a certain level of awareness. It's very good for helping with self-realization, which is amazing. And I think that it's something everybody needs. Right, right, right. I think coaching bridges the gap between awareness and action. So coaching is like, how do we move forward now, though? And it's interesting with a lot of the work that I do because because of so many of the people I work with go to therapy, and I've had clients who are business owners who own therapy practices, it's really interesting. I see a lot of people stuck in what I call the self-awareness trap. So people who are so good, they can name why they are the way they are, they can trace it back to their childhood, they can self-diagnose out the wazoo, and it becomes their crutch to procrastinate. It's interesting. And so they they're super aware, but they're still stuck. And that's why with my coaching, it's really interesting why I call it transformation coaching. Going deeper than just thoughts, because I feel like with therapy, we talk a lot about thought patterns. Um, where I really like to get down to the identity. So there's there's like different layers of identity. There's what we typically see, which is our results, uh, and then we have our actions. And then from beneath of that, typically we have our thoughts, and then we have our emotions, and then at the very bottom is our beliefs. And what I see is the reason why people can't stick to changing an action and creating a different result in their life, is not because of the thoughts, it's because of the belief underneath of the thought. And that's even with therapy, even with people like I feel like therapy is great for let me monitor my thoughts, let me really be aware of my inner state. But if you don't change the root, the belief that's driving the stories, then you're gonna continue to loop into the same patterns of behavior that aren't serving you. So it's it's really interesting. So I didn't know that there was layers to awareness, but really, if you don't get to the root of the tree, it doesn't matter what you try to do, stuff's gonna die on it. And and I really think when it comes to, especially when it comes to addiction or substance reliance, what I found to be true is if you are still carrying the same identity as you carried when you were an addict, then you will fill that void with some other substance or some other impulsive addiction. So for me, because I believe deep down, I had a belief that said who I am is not good enough. No matter what I did in my external reality, no matter how much success I achieved, no matter what behaviors I changed, what books I read, I still found a way to be addicted to something, whether it was porn, whether it was edibles, whether it was stimulants, whether it was working myself to death, all of it was trying to do the same thing. And it wasn't until I figured out, oh, it's because this person that I've created to survive is not who I actually am. I've created this armor that I've worn to win the war of like whatever my past circumstances were. And it served me to a point, but I didn't realize that the war was over and I refuse to take off the armor. So there's this like huge process that has to happen of understanding that the version of you that is engaging in things that you do not prefer and that is creating results in your life that do not serve you. It's really important to understand that that's not you, that's the armor that you've created to survive. And in order for you to move past it, you have to learn how to unpack that. You have to take off the armor and you have to literally shift your identity. And it's just, I wish that was talked about more in therapy. I wish that was talked about more in general, because if you don't change that, that sense of self, really nothing is going to be sustainably different. You can do different things and get different results, but what's the point if you don't feel emotionally fulfilled and you feel like shit? Yeah. That's just my perspective.

SPEAKER_01

No, you're right. And and I think people do get into exactly what you said, which is that uh the trap. Yeah, the trap. And I've seen many people like that where it's been 20 years, you're still talking and talking and talking, and to me, it's time to get a new therapist. Right. Because your therapist should have said to you at one point, hey, let's put a plan into action or let's bring in some outside support for something they can't handle.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And having talked to some therapist and about that, and they want to make money also. They want to stay in business.

Better Outcomes Through Integrated Care

SPEAKER_04

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about let's because I want to talk about this, the shadow side of therapy and healthcare. Yeah, what's your perspective?

SPEAKER_01

I hate that. My goal is if you come and do coaching with us in in that way, is we have a four-month commitment. Yes. But if at two months you say, I hate you, I don't want to work with you, no worries. Yeah, it never happened. But because I just screen people first to make sure that they're in the right space to do it. But and you can't just sign up for it on our website, you have to go through our process first. We get we get an e-ball where you are.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, make it harder for them to start because that's how you know the people who are serious.

SPEAKER_01

I want people to be invested in it and I want them I want them to have better outcomes. And I and also it's frankly a terrible experience for me too, if they're not if they don't want to be there.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It just doesn't make it fun. So I had this when you look at I've had this conversation with some therapists saying, hey, how much do you talk about diet and exercise with with the patients? Oh, it doesn't really come up. I'm like when you look at the data, particularly depression and anxiety, and SSRIs, right? So they're on all these antidepressants, antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds, and psychotherapy. When you look at all three together of psychotherapy, medication, and a diet and exercise regimen, the best outcomes. Not surprising, right? Right. When you look at independent variables, guess what gets the best outcome on its own? Diet and exercise. It gets the most improvement for those particular symptoms. When you look at SSRIs versus just diet and exercise, better outcomes with diet and exercise, right? So to me, it's an injustice if you're not addressing those things.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I think that you're bridging a really important gap too, which with your Synergy Health Collective, which is if you don't have different providers talking to each other and helping them address different dimensions of health, it is a waste of time. Like I was the person, and I say this as the person who, when I was younger, when I was 16 years old, I started going to therapy because I had a life-threatening tumor and I almost had suicidal ideations. I was diagnosed with depression at nine. I was diagnosed with anxiety at 11 or something. And so I had mental health issues. I went to therapy, and the reason why I started exercising was not because of therapy, it was because I wanted to have an outlet of release. And it was so interesting because if you don't recognize that there's different dimensions to health, then you're only going to try to address one thing at a time as opposed to the whole holistic, the whole human picture. And so for me, I was in a career nutrition supplement company. I worked out five days a week. I exercised a lot. I would say I was relatively in shape and fit. And mentally and emotionally, I was a wreck. I was, and I was also addicted to stimulants. And I was addicted to edibles. And that's what happens when you only address one dimension of health. I didn't address the mental and emotional stuff. I was only addressing like the physical health stuff. And I think there's a separate dimension to that, which is the spiritual stuff, right? Which is are you actually living the life that you're mentally living? Yeah. Like are you are you living a life what I call powered by stress or powered by purpose? And so there was so much to for me that I had to unpack when I burned out and lost everything. And I think especially for like the high performers out there, I've I it's never made sense to me why there isn't a requirement in healthcare to where everybody needs to collaborate together instead of it all being separate professions. And I really just think a lot of it is well, if I only address the symptom, then I keep making money. And that's the the unfortunate reality of what when I was a victim of becoming addicted to opiates because of what doctors prescribed me. Yeah. When I went to therapy, I just never really felt like anything got to the root. And the only thing that truly started to change my life was learning about identity, like learning about all the different dimensions and layers of what makes you you. And I when I learned, oh, beliefs and emotions and thoughts and then actions and results, that's the whole big picture. And then you learn how to like actually change those things from the inside out. That's when my whole life, that's when I finally stopped using substances. That's when I started to actually be able to build my business. That's when I started to feel fulfilled. But it wasn't until I got there. Yeah. You know, and it's cool because I think obviously it's again, it's important to address all the different things individually. And and you also don't want to try to address everything at once, or else your life will blow up and you'll feel overwhelmed. But I love that you are just collaborating with other physicians and you're probably partnering with people who are in alignment with your values who you actually believe in. Right, right. Because if you don't do that, then it's just like nobody, it's just like taking an ibuprofen for having a chronic migraine diagnosis. Like it's it's gonna help you in the moment, but you're just gonna feel like shit again.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And and with what you're talking about, where does that ex where does that model exist, right? Who's really doing it?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not many people, if anybody, right? So that that's the whole purpose of that group was yeah why it while I would say networking group, it's a little bit different because the the patient or the client is the center, not us passing referrals. That comes as a byproduct. Yeah. The main product is this person, Brendan's here, sitting here today. We've identified, we've done his testing, we've had these conversations, we've identified these other needs that we don't, we can't fulfill. Where can we get him the support that he needs? And who can we know that would be best suited for him from a whole list of you know, from different needs that he may have that are unique to him? I love that. Right. And that's how you get complete, complete care and best outcomes. And if that means that you work with us for just for testing and someone else was a better fit for anything else, maybe they could do some coaching, great, but they're a better fit.

SPEAKER_05

You go there.

SPEAKER_01

Then go there. I don't care. I want to get the person that's the better fit for us, and we're better fit for them, and get the best, ultimately the best outcomes. So being people driven and not monetarily driven.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And again, going back to Melissa and saying that, you know, I'd put us out of business because I gave everything away for free. My passion and my drive is completely driven by people.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's just who I enjoy. It's where I get my energy, where I get my my power, my purpose is by talking to people and hearing their story and understanding them. And then how can I help support them?

How David Protects His Health

SPEAKER_04

I love it. And for you, it's real simple. I would I would love to put the spotlight back on you too. So, as you've built this business, I mean, you're a guy who um you're very busy in the best way. And every time I'm talking to you, you're always doing something. So, how do you, as somebody whose business is revolved around personal well being, how do you prioritize your well being as you're building the business?

SPEAKER_01

Uh it's it's it's tougher and tougher, right? You know, it becomes a thing of having the me in particular, it's going to bed at night and making myself to get off the computer or get off of doing some real, you know, some video and just make myself go. To bed, I you know, it's something that I also that we all struggle, we all we myself included, I struggle in that way. Same as I carved out time to exercise. And the last couple of days, I haven't been able to get designated exercise time. So I've had a couple walking meetings and I still got in a good bit of steps the last couple of days, despite having zero designated exercise. I still got over 10,000 steps both days. So I was happy with that. But I was in a car a lot, I was in a lot of meetings.

SPEAKER_04

But do you have a process that you like? Let's say it's on Sunday, I'll know when you plan your week. So I'm sure you you plan and I'm sure Melissa helps you with this. Do you have a process of I would love to hear maybe more tactical advice for the people listening to this? Because you're obviously doing something and you may struggle, but it sounds like as a net, as a whole, you're you're doing well with it. Yeah. Yeah. What is your process of planning your weeks and making sure that your personal well-being is a priority?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So anybody, you know, whether it's myself or somebody you work with, we're gonna look at the week and see when is our designated time to exercise? Is it before work? Is it midday? Is it after work? A lot of these people become before work. It's at 6 a.m.

unknown

time.

SPEAKER_01

That does become the diminishing returns sometimes with giving up sleep for exercise. And I'm gonna favor sleep over waking up early to exercise. I think sleep is gonna be catastrophic. I think it's just yeah, unless you're slamming pre-workout all day. Right. Right, right. But it's really important. So I do plan it. So if I know, hey, at 4:30, I can go over to Byrne and short pump and take a class. I know that at five I can get to the gym and go get a workout. I know it that at two o'clock Brandon's coming over, we're gonna hit pads. I know that at I can't, I know I have I I can't get anything in today, but I know I have three meetings. I'm gonna just go for walks in those meetings. So I will look at what I'm doing for the day and say, when can I get in my movement? And for me, it's not the same every day. So I'm uh but also being an owner, I can have a bit more flexibility in that way. Sure. But there are times when it just isn't gonna happen and I have to resolve it in my mind, okay. I just today it just isn't gonna happen. But sure, let me get back on it the next day and try to get back. So that's the same way I help people build. I we literally look at their schedule. What do you typically do? And just like anything else, it does mean giving up something else. It could be family time, it could be work time. And a lot of times these people, it's it's forcing them to stop working.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because there's Yeah, walk me through that process.

SPEAKER_04

I would love to hear the conversations that you have with people to get people to realize hey, the reason why you're working so much is not because of necessity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they have the money because it's because they love it. They love it.

SPEAKER_04

Well, they they they they they love it, or I'd I'd argue and say they don't even love it, they're addicted to it. I would even say that it gets to a point where people resent the success that they've built, but they feel like they can't stop. And because of that, they're they're almost addicted to it. And and what I see is people use work as a form of avoidance. So what I did was because work is so socially accepted in our society, I was the person who I would work all day, every day. And then if I had personal stuff that was going on at home or my health was out of whack in some way, instead of really confronting that and dealing with it, I would just make up scenarios and excuses. I'd literally create problems out of nothing. So I had to work and deal with them because that was a way of procrastination. Yeah. So people use their work ethic, at least the people I help, they use their work and their success as a form of avoidance so they can neglect the other areas of their life because that's more comfortable to them than dealing and confronting with the stuff they've put on the back burner. Yeah. So I'm just curious about, yeah, with your conversations, how do you get them to be like, hey, you're doing this, not because you have to, but because you're not making your health a priority.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of these people have a lot of other one question I ask people is who else are you are you caring for? And if it's the man, he'll say, you do have single people, yeah. There's some there is that single person in their forties that does happen, and the answer becomes themselves, they're caring for themselves and they get it right away.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But when you have the person that's married with kids, parents, dogs, whatever, a lot of people are depending on their them being there. Not just financially, but mentally, emotionally, uh and and and providing that entire support system. So when I can get people to understand the healthier and better they are, the better they'll be able to take care of others. Because some of these people, particularly the women, I will say more so than the men. At least the women are more in tune with this or or seem to not be able to put themselves first ever.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it just seems that men, I will say, can be selfish a bit a bit, they're better being selfish.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Overwhelmingly, the women that we've worked with, especially the moms that are they're uh a partner at a big firm downtown, and she's working 60 hours a week, and they have kids they're taking care of, and they're doing extra after-school activities, and and the husband's a piece of shit. Right. That's that's the worst possible scenario.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Or even if it's a supportive husband and he's doing his parts he should he he should be doing as a good father and partner. Um, it's getting her to understand we need to stop what you're doing, we need to put you first. And if not, you're going to break. And if you break, now what happens? Who's take who's gonna take care of all these people that you've you've now taken on that burden? You've taken on that responsibility burden, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um so whenever you overcommit, you have so many other things that you're not putting yourself first, that's where burnout occurs, that's where this something breaks. Something will break. It's not a matter of if but when. So getting that woman, that that person, and then with the men, getting them to also realize you're okay financially here. Like I get it, you want to be the breadwinner, you want to be this whatever, you're super driven. From what you said, you have a great relationship with your wife, your family, everything's great, but you do we really need to do where can we scale back a bit and get more value and purpose out of the people that you care about the most and you're caring for. So it's about getting them a long way of saying convincing them to put themselves first.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And put their health first because they'll be better for those they care for.

SPEAKER_04

I love it. Yeah, and then and it's it's kind of getting them to see the I like to always ask the question if you don't change anything, what does your life look like a year from now? And when they realize you get them out of that fight or flight, because when you're in survival mode, survival doesn't have to mean a lack of resources. Survival mode means that your nervous system's dysregulated. You have beliefs that make you believe in some form or fashion that you have to suffer to be successful or it's not safe to slow down or whatever. When you're in survival mode, the way I describe it is like you're driving a car 300 miles per hour on the freeway. You can only focus on what's in front of you because life is happening so fast. And I think that this is actually clinically proven your executive functioning and your brain actually decreases in cognition whenever you're in survival mode. So the primal vein part of the brain is very much so online, but the creative part of the brain is not. So you can't see the bigger picture when you're in survival mode. You can only see what's in front of you. And what happens is it makes it so people can ignore the long-term repercussions of the way they're functioning. So you have to like, what I've what I've said, you have to like make it safe for people to like kind of regulate with you.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And once they're regulated, you can be like, all right, let's look at the bigger picture here. If you continue to go down this path, this is what's gonna happen. The train is going to hit you. Right now, you have the opportunity to get out of the way. Are you gonna do it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, it brings this point that sometimes I hear, I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

At that point, if somebody says, I just don't want to know, it's that avoidance, right? And their heads down focusing on other things and they know that their health is getting out of control at this point. But if their response is I don't want to know, you know, and in behavior change, you're looking at different steps where they are mentally, yeah, they're not they're not there. They're not ready for it, yeah. They're gonna be forced into it one day.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

Volunteers Not Hostages In Change

SPEAKER_01

And this is where you just said is if you you know, you know, change where in a year, how is it gonna be? And you know, it's kind of that when you talk to even reference addiction, and until someone says, I'm ready or I'm gonna do this, so those those different stages of change and where somebody is matter greatly.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I think that we need to encourage them to start we we have to try to push them there. And when someone doesn't want to know, and then I talked to them about So people have said that to you in in your consultation with them. Yeah, and they those are people that don't come in, right? And I'm like, we're here when you're ready. Because I we look for volunteers, not hostages. I love it. I don't want to force someone to come in and have a bad experience, but at the same time, it it's I I have a couple of those questions, like what you're talking about. If you don't do anything, where are we in a year? They know what's happening already. Yeah. That's why they don't want to know. Yeah, and it's not urgent enough for them to change. The pain isn't bad enough yet, right? Yeah. And then so again, uh yeah, Brian, I'm not gonna make you come in, but I think we could really help you in this way. And when you're ready, we're here.

SPEAKER_04

That's so important. And and this is interesting. I want to tell you a story real quick that just happened to me that that is really drives us home. So part of the work that I'm doing now is I'm going into organizations and being hired by these organizations to hold confidential group cohorts to help their people, their high performers, unpack and deal with the personal issues outside of work so they can keep thriving inside of work. It's super cool. However, I've done this two ways. The first way I did this was I coached a behavioral health team, and it was unexpected that this happened the way it did. I went and did a workshop on burnout prevention. And typically the workshops that I do, they're really tailored towards meeting people where they are as far as their level of awareness. So it's always three kinds of people the unfulfilled, the people who are already fulfilled, who don't really have issues, and what I'm doing is putting logic to why they feel that way. It's the people who are I call the overextended person. So the person who they are aware of struggles that they're experiencing, but they're not at a point where it's so bad that they're in so much pain that they're super willing to change. And then there's the person who, the worn down one, they're already very aware that they're burned out, something's happening, but maybe their perspective of the root cause is not what is actually going on. And I always say that in these talks. And so the talk is designed to help people meet them where they are. And for the person who's fulfilled, hey, now you're gonna have a logical understanding of why and you're gonna stay that way. The person who's overextended is like, hey, before this get this gets too bad, you're gonna have tools to create more fulfillment in your life. And the person who's worn down, it's like, hey, you're gonna get immediate relief and solutions now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And it's interesting because I did a workshop for this team. And at that point I was doing a lot of one-on-one coaching. So I asked people, hey, if you're interested in a free consultation with me, let me know. And there was a team of 12 people, seven people came up to me and said they wanted to do one-on-one coaching with me. And so I had this idea. I went to the owner and I said, Hey, how would you feel if we actually just did group coaching here and I helped all your team members? That was great in theory. What happened though was it wasn't just the people who came up to me and said, I want one-on-one coaching. It was everybody. And then the owner did it with everybody. The problem was the owner was not ready to confront the stuff that was required to really make the changes she needed to make. So she was more than willing to help the team, but she wasn't willing to confront it herself. And then the room was kind of split when I was working with them. It was people who were really ready and they were super invested and it was beneficial, and then people who weren't ready. And so what I learned from that experience was people have to self-select. And so now I just did this again. I just did a presentation for a group of 70 sales leaders. And what I said at the end was like, hey, I'm gonna give you guys the opportunity to opt into a group coaching program. This is very deep work, meaning that you have to be at a point where you know that if you continue to live life the way you're living it, you're gonna have drastic personal consequences, meaning that your marriage is gonna start falling apart, your health is gonna start declining, your performance at work is gonna start dipping. So this program is only for the people who are truly ready to change. That being said, take this survey and let me know if you want to do it. And I made it anonymous so that people who didn't opt in didn't have to put their name. It was so interesting because now doing it that way, and leadership's not allowed to be a part of the cohort. So if you're if you're in the sales department, your sales leader is not allowed to be in the cohort. So it's everybody's gonna sign confidentiality agreements, it's all has to be private. But doing it that way, now you have a room full of people who are ready for the work. And that's what I've learned is so important. And I think a lot of business owners struggle with that is you're trying to force people to be ready before they're ready. And maybe you're doing that because you're you're in scarcity. Maybe you're doing that because you're you want more money. You're trying to force somebody to fit and trying to push them as opposed to pulling them in and letting them come to you. And uh, that's just not a sustainable business model. But I just you saying that really uh jogged that in my mind because I've really seen what happens when you try to force people to do stuff when they're not ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's not a pleasant experience for anybody.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

At the same time, there is the other side of healthcare that says, hey, you may not want to go get your blood drawn, but we this is just part of the physical. So I mean, there is there is a there is an opt-in particip participatory compulsory, whatever you want to call it, part they have to do.

SPEAKER_05

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, and otherwise just don't come in at all is the other part. So you have to have some buy-in, right? Yeah. There has to be some amount of buy-in. And then I think that if we can become the catalyst, the cue to action, the reason why they say, okay, maybe I maybe I can start to look at this now. So I go from pre-contemplation, I'm not even thinking about this, to contemplation, or I I know I should probably do something about this, but I don't really want to, I don't I just don't want to. I don't want to know to preparation. Okay, well, I sat down and I I should probably start to put something together and then I then I put a plan into action. But it's get it's I think part of our jobs is to push them from pre-contemplation into contemplation into preparation. That's a beautiful way to put it. Because while they may not be ready, we know that this is needed, right? And yeah, eventually some and some people would there's be a certain percentage of people that are just they're never gonna be ready and they're gonna die heavily medicated, to be frank.

SPEAKER_04

And and that's like the it's interesting because the mind may not be ready, but the soul's ready. And that's what I've seen is like, and that's uh I think there has to be a mandatory component at first. Yeah, and it's almost like when I go in and do talks, the whole team's required to be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And so the way the talk needs to be.

SPEAKER_01

And you see when people are some people are like, uh, you know, like there, there's gonna be a couple people that just don't want to be there. It's which is fine. You can see their body language a mile away.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, which is fine. But but what that does is it provides a container and an opportunity. So the talk, as much as you I can, I tailor it towards everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, yeah, because if you go in and say, hey, your identity's like if you go in and say, like, hey, uh, you're not the person you came here to be, like you just can't do that, right? It's like trying to it, it doesn't work. But yeah, it's so interesting. There's an art and a sensitivity to it. There is, yeah. And and I think this is a cool topic to talk about because if you're a coach or you're somebody who is meant to facilitate transformation in some way for somebody, it's so important you recognize the difference between somebody who needs it but isn't ready for it, and the person who needs it and is ready for it. Right. And it's not readiness in the sense of they don't feel fear or discomfort. But if you're able to paint the picture effectively for them and get them to really see the truth of the situation and you're able to open the door for them, the people who are ready will walk in.

SPEAKER_03

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04

And then if they don't walk in, as long as you take the steps, that doesn't mean anything about you. It's not because you did anything wrong, it's not because your product isn't worthy enough, it's not because there's nothing like, and that's what I struggled with in the beginning was what am I doing wrong? Why are people not wanting like I took it as a personal thing, like they're not wanting to work with me or I suck. And I realized it was more so just oh, like these people aren't ready to walk through the door yet.

Ethical Sales And Where To Find Them

SPEAKER_01

Right. That's where you look at uh that volunteers and hostages. I'm a Mike Tomlin guy, I'm a Pittsburgh guy, so yeah. Uh, but he always talk about we want volunteers on hostages. So we do discovery calls, and in that call, someone will call and say, Hey, they they put a con they put a request in online and I'm talking and they inquired about the DEXA scan. They just want to know I just want to do a DEXA. And in talking to them, I say, well, either they'll say, Well, what else do you offer? Which is an easy conversation, or I'll I just I do tell them, I make sure to tell them before they get off the phone what else we do offer and how it can help them. And it always leads to more questions from them. But I always leave it with you can choose whatever you want to right now. You can buy, you can do one test, two, or all three. Completely up to you. I'm just going to tell you the value that you'll get from each one, depending on where you are and where you're ready, what you're ready to do, and financially too. Here's what it would be do whatever you want. You can book easily online. I'm happy to help you get booked right now. Some people say, let's do it right now, I'll take their credit card, we book it right there.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Other people say, I'll take a look at it later, I gotta think about it, that's fine. Other people say, I'll I'll go ahead and book all three online and they do. Other people say, I'm gonna think about it, and then you never hear from them again. That's actually pretty rare though. We're we were pretty high. If if you call us, there's a very, very 90% chance you're booking something. Wow. Not because I told you to, not because I had to convince you, but because we had a conversation. I didn't pressure you to do anything. I just present the options to you. Yeah, I don't believe in in making you do something that you should.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, like the objection to handling and the basically the manipulative sales tactics to try to force somebody to do something that they truly don't want to do.

SPEAKER_01

Somebody asked me once, they said convince they were calling about DEXA and they said convince me why I should do this. And I said, I'm not going to. I said, I said, don't do it then. I said, I don't want like guys like, if you don't want to come in, I don't want you to come in. I I said, I'm not gonna convince you to do something that I and I told him the benefits, and maybe he thought it was a sales tactic, but it really isn't. It's it's how I feel, it's how I can put my head down at night and how I can wake up and know that people are coming in to see us because they want they want to be here.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and that's powerful. And I I think that's been a huge part of why you've been so successful and you've been growing so fast. So, David, this was awesome. Tell the people where they can find you, where they can learn more about your services, plug yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so metafitrx.com, M-E-T-A-F-I-T, R X dot com, metabolicfitness prescriptions.com. And you can find everything there. Instagram, LinkedIn, run there a lot are probably the two main socials. Need to get on YouTube some more. But yeah, website and socials. Yeah. Cool. Thanks, David. Awesome. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Yeah.